Sarah: welcome back to the Banowetz Marketing podcast we’re glad you’re here. My name is Sarah Banowetz and today we’re talking about employee experience and I have a special guest with me today. Welcome, James. This is James Mayhew. How are you today?

James: I’m doing great. Hi Sarah. Thanks for having me.

Sarah: Thanks for being on the podcast.

James: Absolutely.

Sarah: So give us a little overview of who you are and what you do.

James: Yeah, I am a leadership coach and organizational culture consultant. So I work primarily to create a high performance culture for the businesses that are my clients. And that just means that we’re going to go and look at anything from leadership through creating a culture where it’s based on values and things like freedom and responsibility. So to set up a winning mindset and success all around.

Sarah: I love it, I love it.

James: Thank you. I have two sons. They’re both adults now and I’m going to be a grandpa for the first time in just a few weeks. So that’s been very exciting.

I’ve been married for, gosh, I asked about it, is it 28 years or 29? And she, she had to think too. So it’s 28 years. And, gosh, when we’re not doing, when we’re not doing professional stuff, you are going to find me and my wife out in the mountains in Colorado, or we want to explore some places in Montana.

Just, we love that kind of, that area of the country.

Sarah: I love the mountains too.

James: Yeah, absolutely.

Sarah: I think you find yourself either like an ocean person or a mountain person?.I ‘m definitely a mountain person.

James: Yeah. Yeah.

So how about you?

Sarah: Yeah, so I own Banowetz Marketing and there’s six of us working together right now to help our clients market their businesses.

So we provide a marketing department on a fractional basis, or on a contractor basis. So we’re like fractional  employees for other growing companies. So, yeah, and six kids. Two are from Ethiopia, four are biological and yeah.

James: Wow. Yeah. I knew you had a big family.

Sarah: Yeah. They’re pretty good. Now they’re getting older.

It’s just a bunch of teenagers and a young adult.

James: Yeah. So food is scarcity in your house is what you’re saying.

Sarah: Yeah. When we’re going to the grocery store and people think I’m just like stocking up, I’m like, no, this is our groceries for about a week or two.

James: Right.

Sarah: So, yeah. How did you get started in your industry?

James: Yeah. I’ve done a lot of different things, so I’ll cover a little bit of my background. You and I have some convergence, especially in what I’ve done in my past. So photography and graphic design was really what I did professionally for a number of years that led me to owning several different small businesses. From a portrait photographer, then I got into a graphic design and print shop and that’s actually opened up quite a few more doors for me. And I ended up going to work for a company that’s one of the fastest growing companies in Eastern Iowa. And that was back in 2009.

And in that job, that was the first time that I kind of got a chance to flex the, the leadership wings. Right. I didn’t even know that was an area for me that I had interest in. I wasn’t even aware that I had any competency in it. I do remember being a kid and having teachers say, you know, he’s a leader, but I didn’t know what that really meant.

So in that company I was managing a small team. I was overseeing some of our content creation and at one point, we opened it up and we started to say, we needed somebody to look over what we were calling mission and culture at the time. Really not understanding what that looked like.

And these conversations evolved over time, and it showed that it’s going to be a leadership area and I went and I said, listen, I have some ideas on what we need to do, because here’s the thing, while we were fast growing, it wasn’t a great place to work. And I had buyer’s remorse on the day that I took the job.

I closed my print shop essentially to go to work there, and what I thought I was getting into wasn’t what I was getting into. I was a toxic employee. I mean, it was kind of the norm there. And so what happened over that time is I just, I had my own little epiphany. I had to flip the switch and realize that this wasn’t a path that I wanted to do.

It wasn’t helping me. It certainly wasn’t helping any of my coworkers. It wasn’t helping my family. So why, why go there? There’s a lot we could talk about at a different time about that, but what’s, um, What I ended up doing then was taking on a role there. I became chief culture officer, and I found it like this was a place where I felt called and led to.

And what we did was we took all of these elements when we started to figure out what made us a good place to work. And where did we have a lot of places to grow?

And so owning culture was my job and that included things like leadership development and employee engagement, communication, and what I found Sarah was that it was really enjoyable to see people come and visit us. And we would, we would have people ask us, what are you doing? How are you doing this? We hear this stuff, but we want to learn more. And I knew that I wanted to take that and start working with other businesses to do that. So that’s where I got started and I’m coming into like my fourth year of doing this independently.

I’ve been gone for a little bit longer than that, but it took me at first, I don’t know, year to 18 months to kind of get my stuff together to decide this is where I wanted to pursue.

Sarah: Very cool. You know, I did not even, I must’ve forgotten. I don’t remember knowing that you were a photographer and graphic designer.

James: Oh, yeah. I still like to play with it, but my camera right now is not like cameras I used to have. I just love it. It’s my creative outlet.  I kind of fancy myself someday getting back into it, quite a bit more serious, but not for clients. I just want to do it for me. So, yeah.

Sarah: It can kind of, you can burn out. I’m happy cause I had a photography business before, too. I’m terrible with graphic design, but I love photography. But I’ve been actually happy with having the marketing company because it gives me, I actually make more money as a marketer than as a photographer. And so now I have the fancy, super nice equipment and lenses.

So that’s really nice. And I have to use them this afternoon because I have to go record a commercial. So.

James: Hey, that’s cool. Yeah.

Sarah: So let’s jump into this topic that you were starting to hint at, which is the employee experience. So, why don’t you just give us a little overview of what exactly the employee experience means to you?

James: Yeah, I want to enter kind of with a blanket statement.  And I believe this, I think that most people would agree that behind every great customer experience, there was first a great employee experience. And so if we look at it this way, when you come to work and you love what you do, you have a great team around you, and you have great leadership around you the employee experience feels great, right? There is a freedom to make decisions. You get ownership on things you’re constantly being coached, but you’re not really being managed or controlled. You have a freedom to try and experiment with things, and that includes freedom to fail at times. So a great employee experience can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people, but it has to be throughout the entire organization.

You’ll find pockets of it, but you’ll find in those companies that have just pockets of it, that systematically it’s kind of kept in check or held down. So if we contrast that to maybe what a poor employee experience looks like, we could say it this way, I love my job, and there are people that are facing this all the time right now, but maybe they struggle with some of the decisions that the company is making.

Maybe they are struggling with a manager or somebody on their team. It is very tough to deliver a great employee experience, or I’m sorry, customer experience when you’re having a strained day. And so if you have those moments where you love your job, but it’s really tough to want to go into work today, you’re always going to be limited in your capacity to deliver that customer experience.

You’re just missing things like, it could be anything from as simple as the soap dispenser need refilled in our restaurants bathroom, right? If you’re having a bad day and somebody has been riding you, you may not even be noticing things like that.

Now that translates then back to the customer. So the customer comes in and uses the restroom, they go to wash their hands and the soap dispensers not filled. I’ve automatically started thinking about like, okay, like, who’s been touching my plate? You know, there’s just, you just create that cognitive, what I would call cognitive dissonance around it. Don’t make me think.

Sarah: No, you’re exactly right. You’re exactly right. And when you and I were discussing what our topic would be today, you actually brought this up as our, as a topic to talk about. And I jumped on it too, because my employees actually called me out a few weeks ago, one of them. They were like, you need to talk about the culture that you’ve been creating. You need to talk about the things that you’ve been doing and that you know, cause it will help other businesses. So we’ve been really busy. We brought on a couple of new clients and so I haven’t gotten out there and talked about it.

So I’m like, hey, yeah, let’s talk about it.

James: Well, I’m glad we are. And kudos to you because isn’t that remarkable that it’s your own team that is asking you, Sarah, you need to tell more people about what you’re doing, versus you coming up with the idea and then kind of going, yeah, sounds good to me. Right? That’s the Mark that you are doing things well there, so kudos.

Sarah: Yeah, no, that’s a good point. Yeah. I guess in a nutshell, for me personally, as a business owner and business leader is just the fact that if I’m going to work, I want to enjoy what I do. And I think it all stems down from that. It’s like I’m not going to enjoy what I do if like everyone around me is unhappy.

So, and I do, I totally see the connection between, between what is happening inside with the employees and then how that affects the clients too.

James: It’s so interesting, even that you just said yeah, we should enjoy what we do. Work should be fulfilling. It doesn’t have to be that we’re coming to task every day.

If you’re the kind of employee that’s coming to task every day, and I know there are certain jobs that’s going to feel like that versus coming to work, it is a little bit of a different mindset for me. That’s something I’ve been thinking about since I was young. Work can be enjoyable.

And I even helped a client as part of one of the services that I do is help my clients discover and define, and then actionize their culture. So, I was working with a client and one of the things that I discovered early on was they were having fun with each other. And it took a while to get to this, but the first cultural attribute that we ended up writing was we enjoy what we do.

And then from there, we started to define what that looks like. Not to create a policy around it, but to create guidelines that if we enjoy what we do, this is what it looks like. So then we can see it. We can duplicate it, you know, we can teach it and coach it and we can also measure it.

So, it comes back in all these ways that that loop of, of feedback right there is another great, I guess, quality or attribute of an employee experience, a great employee experience.

Sarah: Well, I could just hear a business owner say that just takes too much time. I’m not going to put time to that, we just have to get the work done. We’re just so you know, and I do think that is something that even as someone who at the core of who I am realizes how important that is, it’s still is really hard on the day in and day out. When, you know, there’s deadlines to meet and you’re busy and yet your team needs you.

It is a really hard balance. And it’s a fine line to walk of putting too much time into that area and not enough time. And I’m constantly aware of my ad in that. I don’t know if you have any tips or tricks to that.

So where I’m at personally is, I am a part of entre leadership.

Dave Ramsey’s business leadership program. And so I’m part of the all access program. And so we talk about this kind of stuff all the time and we get training on it constantly. And I do think that being in a mentorship coaching role, which is like, what you do, is really important because it’s not just a one and done thing.

It’s not like you can just go to an eight hour long conference class on employee culture and then be like, Oh, I learned it. Go tell your employees, you know, we have a great culture here and this is the way we are going to behave. And then it’s, that’s it. Cause it’s kind of like having a family, it’s constant.

It’s more like how you had mentioned being coached versus being managed or controlled.

James: Right.

Well, you know, one of the things that just popped into my head is listening to your response about that is understanding that culture and leadership, this is directional based, not destination-based right.

There’s no arrival to it. There’s no arrival to, okay, we’ve we finally hit this mark and now we can relax and we can coast, we can take our eyes off it. Because this is the thing, culture is dynamic. And in the moment that you take your eyes off that prize, okay, you’ve got it to where we’re functioning really well, culture will shift.

And that’s the biggest piece that I think that I provide my clients with is understanding that it’s always in flux to some degree. So you have to continue to pay attention and just at least have awareness. If you are so busy that your head is down and you’re constantly in the work. And you’re constantly trying to keep up with managing things.

So you as leaders, we’ve got to raise our eyes and have a higher plane of awareness. So we’ve got to be setting the vision. This is where we’re going and that way we’ll help you see when those shifts start to happen and you, and then you coax it back.

Nope. This is who we are. This is what we stand for. This is what we don’t stand for. And  again, all of that translates into creating an incredible employee experience, which then perpetuates, because now it’s attracting people that want to be a part of what you’ve created.

Sarah: Exactly.

And I think it’s the difference between working in your business and working on your business.

And I do think a lot of entrepreneurs and business leaders tend to work in their business more than they’re working on their business. One thing that  I’ve noticed is just that cultur can shift so rapidly depending on various things.

We started, Donald Miller, the StoryBrand guy, he had made a little video with the recommendation that you put out a big three and it’s like your big three goals.

So we use Asana and Slack, and so I created tasks for my team where they would give me their big three at the beginning of the week on Mondays. And then at the end of the week, just to tell me how the week went, because I know in entreleadership, they have a tool that you can use where it sends your employees an email at the end of the week, and you can rate one to five and everything. I haven’t started using that. I just did it in Asana.

But yeah, I realized that I needed to keep an eye on how my team was doing on a week by week basis. Sometimes even a day to day. I mean, at least I’m very, I like relationships. There’s times when you have to set a project aside to have a conversation with a team member, and they will, this is multiple team members, so this isn’t even just one person we’re all here. I’m sorry that we had, like, I’m sorry that we had to talk about this. And I’m like, No, don’t be sorry. This is so important.

Yeah. For the past hour, you and I could have gotten like, you know, so many social media posts and Facebook ads and website designs done or whatever, but this is so important because by us having this conversation and, walking through these kinds of things, it’s going to, it makes it so that they can, they have, they’re just encouraged and like it wind beneath their wings that they can go off and it ends up helping productivity. If we have to stop and, you know, have those conversations and make those decisions.

A weekly team meeting. You think that that would be a waste of time and money? It’s not because it’s the same type of thing.

It’s like, you take the time to invest in your team and then they go off and they’re able to perform happier and with better results too. So yeah.

James: You know, I think there’s so many thoughts that are coming to me right now. And right now, I think where I want to start is that in this time of working remotely, this massive shift, it’s been a huge disruption to culture.

It’s changed everything so rapidly. We’ve had to learn new ways to communicate. We’ve had to learn how to cope with anything from children and pets and spouses showing up on our zoom calls, you know, walking through the background or whatever it is. And so I think the couple of things that you said are so smart and wise to be doing right now, which is checking in, just checking in on your team. Leading like a human.

Since we don’t have the, we’re not in the same rooms often, or as often as we were, we need to do those check-ins. And it can just be a two or three minute quick zoom call or phone call, whatever it looks like. But I would do it where you can hear each other. And I think it’s best that you can both hear and see each other instead of a check in by email. Cause a check in by email is so distanced and impersonal. So a check in doesn’t have to be about work. It could just be, do you have what you need? Are you, is your family doing okay? How’s the mother-in-law who’s in the nursing home, like, because we can’t go visit them.

So all of those things impact your ability to be focused and really to do your best work. We need to realize, and remember as leaders that we’ve got to be, we’ve gotta lead with empathy and be a human. And I think this is the situation that we’re in is emphasizing that more than at any time ever the importance of it.

Sarah: No, I completely agree. Which then also reminds me why, one reason why we’re doing this. One of my core values and one of the reasons I do what I do is because I believe that leaders don’t create followers, leaders create other leaders.

And it’s so amazing to watch. I mean, the last few weeks, especially as we’ve brought on more clients and I’m watching, we had, we had put one of my team members in a position where she would be doing implementation work and account management until we got to the point where should we needed her to only be account management and we’re at that position now. And so starting last week, it’s like no implementation work. You’re passing all that off to the rest of the team. You are leading, that’s what you’re doing.

And she started with me just writing social media content. That’s how, what she was hired for a year and a half ago was just to write social media content. And she just was so skilled in marketing and just so skilled at her job that I just, I asked her, I said, Do you want to, the only reason I was able to know how to ask this was because my husband works for amazing company and they asked him the same thing, like 10, 13 years ago, do you want to go down this path of being an excellent implementer? Or do you want to go down a leadership path? And we’re not going to put you like, this is a path we’re going to walk down, it’s going to take a while. But instead of going, instead of doing a lot of training on one, or you do the training on the one or the other that you picked. And they didn’t make him decide right away.

You know, they gave him time to make that decision. And I did the same thing with her. And I said, you have strong skills here, both in leadership and implementation. If you could pick, which would you want to go down? Because that’s what I want to be really focused on training you in really really well.

And she picked the leadership. A year ago, and we’ve been walking down that path and now in the last couple of weeks to see her really jump into it, it’s amazing. Because it’s like the things that I was struggling with as a leader of a company, and learning and all the growth, and growth is painful.

And now she’s asking the same questions I was asking myself a year and a half, two years ago. She’s saying, she’s seeing similar things and making suggestions and she’s, I don’t know. It’s just really amazing that leaders creating other leaders. It’s like, I knew it from a headspace, but I’m the kind of person that it has to hit my heart.

And it’s really been hitting my heart in the last couple of weeks. And it’s like, Oh yeah, there’s work that we’ve been doing is starting to, I’m starting to see the fruit of it. Like I’m seeing the little baby sprouts of whatever growing, the good fruit growing or whatever, the good, whatever growing it’s just really cool.

James: Yeah. This is what gets me excited. You know, just having a conversation with you on this, or we’re working with clients in, in I’m most suited to work with people who have like what you were just describing. If they’re going to lead with their heart and, if they’re driven to build people, I want to work with them. Maybe they don’t know how to do that. So I can help figure those things out.

But when you have that desire to pour into people and to invest in people, That’s key. My very close friend Mark says it this way: the best investment you’ll ever make is in another person because they are eternal. And he comes at it from a faith based perspective.

And I think that is so brilliant. And as a leader, man, it’s so profound how you said it. It’s your job as a leader, to not create followers, it’s to create other leaders. And when you create other leaders, it’s because you’ve invested in them. It’s because you’ve seen their potential, and you’ve also seen where they need to grow and you’re making a concentrated effort to put time, resources, money into them because you have seen and you want to groom something with them, and leadership isn’t for everybody. When we were at global leadership summit, this past fall, when Patrick Lencioni came out and he said, not everybody should be leaders.

He kind of tossed his script and just came out and said some stuff off the cuff. And it was one of the most impactful sessions from global leadership summit because it was raw and it was real. And he was reflecting that not everybody can be a leader and  some people are entering into it for the wrong reasons.

And some of the wrong reasons are, they feel like they’re entitled to it or that they believe that, maybe it’s not so much that they are entitled, but they’ve earned it or that they covet having that role, the corner office or the salary that comes with it. But if nobody’s really prepped you, or if you’re not coachable to transition into a leadership role, you are not going to be investing in your people. You’re going to be investing in yourself, you know, and how can I look better? And that’s, that’s just why it can go so wrong so quickly if there’s not a high degree of awareness and emotional intelligence around it.

Sarah: Well, and to that end right there, and I know that you come from a faith background too, so I’m just gonna like lay it out there.

I think it comes down to the example that we have in Jesus.

James: Right.

Sarah: Because he was a servant leader. I mean, he came and he served, he washed his disciples feet. He put his life on the line and died for us. I mean, ultimately that is my ultimate example of a strong leader. It was someone who really gave themselves up and were so patient with his disciples too, but then also called them out, too. You know, there’s a balance there, but I mean, that’s exactly what it is because you could have had, I mean, Israel was waiting for a king to come and like take over and rule and, you know, from a high place and Jesus came and from a low place and served from the bottom up. And I think that’s our ultimate example, whether you’re a Christian or not. To like study the life of Jesus and realize that he was an excellent leader. And part of it is because he served his people.

James: You know, the, the most memorable interactions that I’ve had with clients, it’s it’s been, because we have entered into a discussion around faith.

Sometimes we’re in similar places, which is, you know, we know who’s in charge and who we’re working for at all times. And sometimes we’re in different places. But it’s never been confrontational.

Sarah, I’ll say this. Anytime that I’ve ever stepped into that realm more it’s always been, I’m just going to say it’s been blessed, and when I’ve either stepped away from it or shied away from it, because I was worried that maybe the client isn’t there or that it would be something that they didn’t want to respond to, that I could lose business then it hasn’t been blessed, you know?

And so for me, I don’t separate those things. I think people, I’ve been complimented, I’ve done you know workshops, in fact, I did a workshop on giving and receiving feedback, and I don’t remember talking to anything about faith in it. And afterwards I had a gentleman come up to me and he said, I really love how you built so much faith into it.

And I said really? Thank you, but where, what do you, what were you seeing? He’s like, well, you pulled quotes from Andy Stanley and some of these other faith based leaders, so I knew. And so he had a little bit of a background, so he had awareness around that. I just looked at him and I said, thank you so much for saying that.

I said, all truth is God’s truth. So like if that just guides where we go, that’s what, I just want to step into that deeper.

But it was, it was funny because I didn’t expect that, you know, I thought it was kind of a, I think for people who probably don’t know who Andy Stanley is, saw it as a really great and smart leadership quote, which is also, it’s also good. I’m totally fine with that.

Sarah: I love it. There have been times when I do tip toe around it, but there have been times when my client will go through something hard and the best thing I can say, and I’ve said to them that I don’t have an answer, but I’ll pray for you. And I know that as a professional, I mean, but anything less than that, there’s, I mean, I can just talk and give ideas, but ultimately that doesn’t really help and they know that.

So I can emphasize, but then just say, I’m sorry, you know, I’ll pray for you.

I remember a specific conversation and the owner of the business just said, thank you. Thank you. Like they seem to actually just really appreciate that. So, so yeah.

James: Yeah. When, when I’m working with clients, and actually I’ll come back to the one where I referenced earlier, where his first attributes that we defined was we enjoy what we do.

It was a fascinating conversation with him to go through this because he had his own faith journey. So we connected at a level that was different. And I’ll be honest with you, Sarah, I don’t know where I would be professionally without that piece.

That has made me such a better coach. It’s made me a better consultant. It’s made me a better trainer. It’s made me a better spouse, friend, parent, all these things. Because it’s the guide, and when I say, I don’t know where I would be without that, I don’t think I’d have the confidence to pursue doing this on my own.

And that’s been really reassuring. And so the more I, again, that’s where I just emphasize where the more I’ve stepped into that, the more things that I feel more confident and I’m serving my clients better. Whether we’re talking about it specifically or not, I’m very consistent with that.

And if somebody opens up the door, we’ll go there. If I can see that the door isn’t opening, I’m not necessarily gonna press. But there are some times that there’s this conversations after the conversation too. And that’s been some really neat stuff.

Sarah: I love it. I love it. Okay. So before I let you go, especially in today’s time, because we’re in the middle, right now, it’s April of 2020 when we’re recording this.

So going to the positive, what has been. The biggest win you’ve recently had in your business.

James: So here’s me, when you say the biggest, my brain starts to go like, okay, was this one bigger? Was this one bigger?

So let me, let me express it this way. And, and rather than, than give you like a, I’ll give you a specific, but I’m gonna start with the general. The general is, is the reminder that when I went into this business, when I left the corporate world to do this for other businesses, I didn’t want it to be dependent upon my location. I wanted to be able to serve and coach my clients from anywhere.

What happened was I started to get into an older pattern that was familiar, that I had to coach train or do consulting while I was in front of them. This, so the silver lining for me has been this reminder that, Hey, there’s a lot more people out there that you could work with that are potential clients.

And you don’t have to be in Eastern Iowa to do that. So it was, it’s been a wake up call now to that end. I was working with a, a client within the last couple of weeks and we delivered a training to his team yesterday. And when we first were talking, I was going to be doing StrengthsFinder with this entire leadership team.

So that was one on one coaching. And then we, we get through all that and we would do, you know, a couple of sessions of group coaching to help boost their, an understanding of each other. All of this stuff hit, and they’re in the financial world. So they’re very busy serving their customer’s needs right now.

So we ended up having a zoom call and he was sharing with some of the challenges that they were having. I said, you know, what’s fascinating about that is I’m actually working on a training right now about how to lead remotely. And in fact, I just call it leading remotely. And he said, really tell me more about that.

He said, I might be ready to pull the trigger. Obviously I can’t do the StrengthsFinder thing right now. I’m not in a position to be able to do that, but this?

And so we put something together really quick. The fascinating thing was when I got on the zoom call yesterday, I expected about a dozen people, maybe 15 at the most, there was over 40 people on that zoom training.

They got to hear a message about what it’s like to lead remotely. And we just, listen, we got into some small details with it because, I just emphasize this old Jim Rowan quote. This is so huge. Jim Rowan famously says or said, “What’s easy to do is also easy not to do”. Anybody who knows Jim Rowan, he has a certain cadence to how he says that, it’s kind of funny.

But I used that yesterday as a reminder of all of the ways that we can have check ins. I even got into the details enough to just remind people to say it’s super important how you end a call. Right? I used an example here. This is a pet peeve of mine. Let’s say you and I have this amazing phone call or amazing zoom call, and we’ve got this high energy and we’re having this, this great going back and forth in our dialogue.

If one of us hangs up the call or ends the call on sort of this, we kind of trail off. Okay. I’ll catch you later. Right? It leaves a lasting impression. And so that’s just one of the things that we talked about yesterday was, end a call because we know first impressions count, but so do last impressions.

They are the thing. What do you want to leave people with? Do you want to leave them feeling uplifted? You want to leave them feeling good or something else?

So it was just little details like that. Thank you for asking, cause it was just such a fun training and I’ve, I’ve got more of those lined up that it’s not just for a specific client it’s for anybody to join.

I’ve made it inexpensive. It’s just 79 bucks for people to register. And we’re going to, we’re going to talk about a lot of that stuff. So that’s been, that’s been a big win. Yeah. Thank you.

Sarah: I love it. That is a big one. That is really big. Okay. So that leads into how do people get in touch with you if they want to work with you?

James: Yeah. The easiest way to get in touch with me is probably visit my website, which is James Mayhew.com. And I’m very active on LinkedIn. That’s the one social media that I probably spend the most amount of time on. So if you search me there, it’s James R Mayhew. I don’t mind giving my phone number out.

Call me, I’m more than  happy to just have a phone conversation. So it’s (319) 929-2604.

Sarah: Awesome.

Well, thank you for being on the podcast, James. I really appreciate it.

James: Thank you. This is amazing. You are so fun. Like it’s just, you always have energy. You always have just an abundance of positivity.

So it’s been fun.

Sarah: I am definitely an extrovert.

James: You are, yeah.

Sarah: Well, thanks for watching the Banowetz Marketing podcast. We are glad that you are here.

A strong ROI on your marketing efforts makes us happy. So if you want to reach out to us, you can find us at BanowetzMarketing.com And we will talk to you later. Bye.